@Blizzard: Five PvP improvements that would make me resubscribe
Posted by: Snafzg
On: Aug 17, 2009 at 10:39am
In case you were living under a rock, new rumours about WoW's next expansion were leaked. Cataclysm will (or won't depending on the validity of these rumours) feature a number of updates that actually have me a bit shocked. In fact, I'm downright flabbergasted! I can't believe the amount of horizontal expansion stuff in these notes. New races. Class combos. A full "old world" overhaul.
That last point is actually what has me the most excited. I never understood why longstanding MMOs simply let their old content wither and waste away into rundant obscurity. In DAOC, for example, each expansion added a new area to explore (Shrouded Isles, Atlantis, Catacombs, etc.), which made all their old content (zones, dungeons, etc.) completely obsolete. I hated this! (Note: They may have addressed this in expansions after I quit playing.)
I always enjoyed the leveling game of WoW but disliked the options available once you hit the level cap. Route A: Raiding treadmill. Route B: Arena grind. Route C: Battleground grind. Route D: A mix of crafting and daily quests. In order to get anything accomplished at level cap, you really needed to kick your gaming schedule into high gear. Unfortunately, I don't think these routes will change with Cataclysm.
Any reader of this blog knows I'm a PvPer at heart. The setup for PvP on WoW's PvP servers was amazing -- the best in any game imho. Unfortunately, there was zero reward for participating in it. The contested zone concept may have been great but you kind of felt like a jerk for killing people because aside from the thrill of it, there was no incentive. PvP is not a viable mode of progression in WoW. I really wish it was...
Here are the top 5 PvP upgrades I think Blizzard should make to their PvP servers. These would get me to insta-resub. Seriously...
5. Contested zone level caps
Personally, I don't mind being ganked in general. I do mind being ganked by some loser who is 20 levels higher than me though. Level capping the zones or adding massive disincentives for PKilling 10+ levels below you would solve this. For example, you kill someone 10+ levels below you and you get a curse reducing your stats by 75% for 10 minutes or something.
4. PvP rank system
Blizzard is famous for their Battle.net ladders and rankings. Why not have a fluffy ranking system for PvP in WoW? PvP ranks could grant special titles, vanity items, or temporary items that actually grant a bit of extra power. Have it work based on your kill to death ratio. For example, you kill someone and get honour but if you die you lose honour.
3. Zone control incentives
The Burning Crusade introduced capturable objectives that would grant bonuses to your realm. I would like to see these built upon. Rewards could be additional XP buffs, unlocking of special dungeons, certain villages granting access to new quests/merchants, etc.
2. Gear/tokens from player kills
Monsters drop random loot, so why can't players? Why not create a token/badge system similar to Warhammer or similar to the systems WoW already uses in their PvE dungeons? It wouldn't be very hard and it would allow people to progress their gear purely through PvP if they wanted to. Options!
1. XP from player kills
XP is the primary progression metre in a game like WoW. Monster kills grant it. Quests grant it. Heck, apparently even battleground objective capture grants it. Why not take it one step further and let players grant it? Afraid of people gaming the system? Include XP reductions for killing the same player too many times in a row.
I really don't think Blizzard is exploiting their PvP servers to their fullest potential here. Mechanically, WoW is an amazing game. Adding a bit more "hardcore" flavour to their PvP servers or perhaps creating new "Hardcore PvP" servers would really widen their appeal to include the PvP audience. I really think that WoW would be the ULTIMATE PvP choice for MMO gamers by adding the above suggestions.
Would it really hurt to try? They're making a bajillion dollars and I can't imagine it would be more than a few months development to implement all the above tweaks. Until they do, I just can't bring myself to resubbing. If they did, I think their market share would only grow.
That last point is actually what has me the most excited. I never understood why longstanding MMOs simply let their old content wither and waste away into rundant obscurity. In DAOC, for example, each expansion added a new area to explore (Shrouded Isles, Atlantis, Catacombs, etc.), which made all their old content (zones, dungeons, etc.) completely obsolete. I hated this! (Note: They may have addressed this in expansions after I quit playing.)
I always enjoyed the leveling game of WoW but disliked the options available once you hit the level cap. Route A: Raiding treadmill. Route B: Arena grind. Route C: Battleground grind. Route D: A mix of crafting and daily quests. In order to get anything accomplished at level cap, you really needed to kick your gaming schedule into high gear. Unfortunately, I don't think these routes will change with Cataclysm.
Any reader of this blog knows I'm a PvPer at heart. The setup for PvP on WoW's PvP servers was amazing -- the best in any game imho. Unfortunately, there was zero reward for participating in it. The contested zone concept may have been great but you kind of felt like a jerk for killing people because aside from the thrill of it, there was no incentive. PvP is not a viable mode of progression in WoW. I really wish it was...
Here are the top 5 PvP upgrades I think Blizzard should make to their PvP servers. These would get me to insta-resub. Seriously...
5. Contested zone level caps
Personally, I don't mind being ganked in general. I do mind being ganked by some loser who is 20 levels higher than me though. Level capping the zones or adding massive disincentives for PKilling 10+ levels below you would solve this. For example, you kill someone 10+ levels below you and you get a curse reducing your stats by 75% for 10 minutes or something.
4. PvP rank system
Blizzard is famous for their Battle.net ladders and rankings. Why not have a fluffy ranking system for PvP in WoW? PvP ranks could grant special titles, vanity items, or temporary items that actually grant a bit of extra power. Have it work based on your kill to death ratio. For example, you kill someone and get honour but if you die you lose honour.
3. Zone control incentives
The Burning Crusade introduced capturable objectives that would grant bonuses to your realm. I would like to see these built upon. Rewards could be additional XP buffs, unlocking of special dungeons, certain villages granting access to new quests/merchants, etc.
2. Gear/tokens from player kills
Monsters drop random loot, so why can't players? Why not create a token/badge system similar to Warhammer or similar to the systems WoW already uses in their PvE dungeons? It wouldn't be very hard and it would allow people to progress their gear purely through PvP if they wanted to. Options!
1. XP from player kills
XP is the primary progression metre in a game like WoW. Monster kills grant it. Quests grant it. Heck, apparently even battleground objective capture grants it. Why not take it one step further and let players grant it? Afraid of people gaming the system? Include XP reductions for killing the same player too many times in a row.
I really don't think Blizzard is exploiting their PvP servers to their fullest potential here. Mechanically, WoW is an amazing game. Adding a bit more "hardcore" flavour to their PvP servers or perhaps creating new "Hardcore PvP" servers would really widen their appeal to include the PvP audience. I really think that WoW would be the ULTIMATE PvP choice for MMO gamers by adding the above suggestions.
Would it really hurt to try? They're making a bajillion dollars and I can't imagine it would be more than a few months development to implement all the above tweaks. Until they do, I just can't bring myself to resubbing. If they did, I think their market share would only grow.
If you're talking about adding xp gain from open world PvP, yes, yes, and YES. That would be awesome. I don't know that it would work that much on PvE servers (yes I'm a carebear), but it would be great for the PvP servers.
I really don't consider RvR lakes to be open-world PvP as much as the contested zones on WoW's PvP servers. Sure, you can progress via RvR in WAR but you can't do it in a truly open world environment.
"The setup for PvP on WoW's PvP servers was amazing -- the best in any game imho."
Now unless WoW is the ONLY MMO you have ever played... really? I know you have at least played WAR for other MMOs, so unless you have not been back to WoW since that, I don't know what you are remembering. Not only are all the skills PvE-based, but the entire PvP aspect is a sad afterthought. You do remember the 3+=impossible hardlock mechanic, right?
The PvP rank system you describe is exactly what the old honor system was, and all it resulted in was 16 hour grinds in pre-mades for a month, bashing PUG groups as fast as possible in WSG/AB. Even if you don't tie game-breaking gear to it, that's all its going to end up as. The rest is just "More WAR in WoW please", and as stated above, the WoW engine is a joke for PvP compared even to WAR (which is not even on the same level compared to DF or even DAoC).
Plus, at the end of the day this is Blizzard we are talking about, and the day they come up with a PvP system that works (and is not stolen from someone else) is going to be the first.
Aside from EVE, no other MMO was laid out so perfectly for open-world PvP like the PvP servers of WoW. DAOC and WAR, two games with a core focus of RvR (ie, PvP en masse), siphoned players off into specific areas (RvR lakes) or instances (battlegrounds/scenarios). There really was zero meaningful open-world PvP in either of those games in my view.
I will concede that WoW may not have nailed PvP from a mechanical standpoint, however, I never experienced crazy amounts of lag. Also, while the skills were balanced for PvE firstly, they were eventually tweaked. Both my Rogue and Shadow-Priest were amazing at PvP...
As for the honour system, it may or may not work. I have seen similar systems work very well in MUDs as well as Aion. I don't think it's impossible to implement and by not associating it with game-breaking gear, hopefully there will be less emphasis on game-breaking behaviour. You never do know though.
I do agree that PvP was tacked on to WoW and that Blizzard is unlikely to ever implement these ideas. It's unfortunate really because I think they have such a large playerbase, a few servers using this ruleset would fill up in no time. I have no doubt this will be a niche thing, but so is Darkfall really. No harm in making games or rulesets for niches imho.
Besides that I agree, Blizzard's PvP setup was far superior to WAR's, because their design of the contested zones kept people moving around, doing things and often running into/competing against each other.
The best PvP in WoW happened in 2004, when on the PvP servers you were still allowed to raid the enemies towns and kill the flight master. This would set off a flag on the server for the other side, and soon the whole situation would explode and PvP happened, with the eventual result being the attackers got pushed out, but not before a damn good fight. Granted this was before everyone had a 60 and raid gear was dominant, which is perhaps why it worked. There are other choices for PvP in the MMO genre, and unless you are looking specifically for PvP-lite, WoW is just not that option.
Come check out my blog for leaked info on their next expansion; gametopiaplanitia.blogspot.com
At some point I'd like to see a combination of WoW's contested zone scheme for PvP with War's campaign setting.
They also recently removed diminishing honor returns from killing the same player over and over.
Blizzard would have to remove all honor points entirely and replace it with a neutral state system in order to make gaining and losing honor worthwhile and less likely to cause ragequit. Ideally a diminishing returns cap on gains and losses would keep values within a certain range.
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